EPISODE 129 | Guest: Debbie DeWitt, marketing communications manager for Visix
McKinsey & Company has published a report about ten top-of-mind organizational shifts in that leaders are coping with and implementing. And these items are still relevant as we close out the year and enter a new one. Our times have brought some fundamental changes to the way organizations do what they do, and leaders must adapt or get left behind.
Whether or not you’re using our digital signage software, these topics are likely affecting your organization right now. And for communicators and content creators, awareness of and responses to these shifts will have to be integrated into future messaging and campaigns.
- Learn about the ten top-of-mind organizational shifts
- Understand how they’re relevant today, and will continue to be for some time
- Hear concrete stats for how these shifts are affecting employees and businesses
- Explore how changes in the culture today will affect operations tomorrow
- Discover four action items for implementing change now
Learn to apply this to managing your digital signage in our free white paper: Communications for the Modern Workforce
Transcript
Derek DeWitt: As we come to the end of the year, we thought we’d look at what organizational shifts and challenges are priority right now for business leaders and leaders of all types of organizations. To do that, I’m here with Debbie DeWitt, marketing communications manager for Visix. Hi, Deb.
Debbie DeWitt: Hi, Derek.
Derek DeWitt: As always, I’d like to thank Deb for talking to me today and everybody out there for listening to this episode of Digital Signage Done Right. You can subscribe to the podcast and follow along with a transcript on the Visix website under Resources and Podcasts. You can also review us wherever you listen to this and on IMDb.
Okay, so we’re gonna talk about McKinsey & Company’s report titled The State of Organizations 2023: Ten Shifts Transforming Organizations. A list.
Debbie DeWitt: I love lists! I love lists! This is my Christmas present to myself.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah. Now, when was this written?
Debbie DeWitt: It’s from April 2023, but I think these issues are still top of mind for most companies. And it affects everyone in an organization, but especially leadership and the people who are managing communications.
Derek DeWitt: So, this report is the result of a survey of more than 2500 business leaders. So, a decent sample.
Debbie DeWitt: Yep.
Derek DeWitt: They found that organizations are grappling with economic and geopolitical turbulence, and issues that substantially affect their internal structures, their operations and their people.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. The report calls out ten of the top challenges that leaders identified as most important, and nine out of ten of those, I think, directly affect or deal with employee satisfaction, wellbeing and productivity.
Derek DeWitt: Huh!
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. So, adapting to new employee mindsets, new preferences and definitely new workflows is still paramount.
Derek DeWitt: Okay. Well, let’s get to the ten organizational shifts that everyone’s so focused on.
So, the first one is, number one, increasing speed and strengthening resilience. So 50%, half of the survey participants, say that their organizations are unprepared to respond to future shocks or disruptions.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. 50% scary.
Derek DeWitt: We’re not ready!
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. But you know, those shocks can come from inside or outside the company. It’s really any unexpected event that affects your business.
Derek DeWitt: I mean, I think we saw with the Covid pandemic how unprepared some organizations were, and some are still trying to find their way out of it.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. I think that’s probably the most, you know, relevant or obvious example. But also, economic and political shocks can cause big disruptions, we know, in supply chains, in consumer demand, in inflation, all of that, you know, taking out loans, that all affects a company. I mean, while we’re recording this, we have two major wars going on right now, you know, so there are sanctions, there are embargoes. These all cause problems. And, unfortunately, school shootings are more common and actually business shootings are more common. Definitely, if you’re a university or a high school, you need to have a plan in place for that.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah. I think this is kind of all about wargaming possible scenarios, if I can use that term here, and being prepared, or at least as prepared as you can be.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. This is the one issue on my list, when I said nine out of ten directly affect employees, I didn’t count this one. But however the organization handles it will certainly trickle down and affect them.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah, for sure. All right, number two is finding a true hybrid.
Debbie DeWitt: Hybrid. There’s the word again.
Derek DeWitt: There’s that word. In this context, it means that organizations are still trying to find a balance between in-person work and remote work. Obviously since the pandemic, about 90% of U.S. organizations have adopted some kind of hybrid model where people work remotely at least some of the time. It’s here to stay, folks! Sorry. It just is.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. And I think we can stop apologizing for it at this point. I think employers are starting to see the benefits, you know.
Derek DeWitt: Are they?
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. Employees want it, and you have to offer it to attract and retain talent. And, you know, this particular survey says four out of five employees who’ve worked in hybrid models over the past two years want to keep doing that.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah. And I’d say one very important advantage for any kind of organization for having this kind of a model is your talent pool isn’t limited by geography. Especially if you have, like, a really particular skillset that you’re looking for, for a position. To limit it to, oh and they have to be in the, you know, greater Atlanta area, it just limits your possibilities.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. And I think, you know, the issue is, according to this survey, that companies are still figuring out what works best for both them and their employees. You know, I just read an article today about, there was a lot of, you know, news made when Zoom called employees back to the office.
Derek DeWitt: Right. Ironic, some people thought.
Debbie DeWitt: But not. It was, it’s clickbait headlines. It’s causing, you know, conflict. But what really happened was what Zoom said, if you live within 50 miles of the office, you need to come in two days a week. If you don’t live within 50 miles, you don’t have to.
Derek DeWitt: Right.
Debbie DeWitt: So, when we talk about hybrid, that’s the thing. It’s not that employers are calling everyone back to the office five days a week. It’s that they’re putting something in place that some people need to come in some of the time.
Derek DeWitt: Right.
Debbie DeWitt: And it’s really about your job, what you do, and, you know, do you actually need to be there? And there are some studies that say there are some advantages to being able to collaborate in person, things like that.
Derek DeWitt: Sure, sure. I think we all know that.
Speaking of collaboration, we all have a new collaboration partner out there, which ties into the third item on the list, which is making way for applied AI, artificial intelligence.
Personally, I think AI is the most exciting thing that has happened this year, maybe ever. And it’s not just organizational shifts. I think artificial intelligence is going to fundamentally change many aspects of our lives.
Debbie DeWitt: Oh, yeah. I’m so pro AI. I’m like, yeah, gimme that assistant right now. Let’s go! Work, life, I’m happy. Let’s get in there. The thing is, is that organizations are just now figuring out how it can help their operations. You know, how they can incorporate it into their offerings, if it’s a product or a service.
But it’s also a big opportunity to help their employees be more productive. The survey showed that organizations are already using AI to radically improve ways of working and make faster data-driven decisions.
And that’s just right now, when we have this kernel of what AI can do, so I can only imagine. You know, of course it’s top of mind because it’s evolving. So how we use it’s gonna continue to evolve.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah. And it’s interesting that you mentioned that it’s evolving. Because it occurs to me that because AI is changing so quickly and people are innovating how to use it so fast, that it itself becomes a sort of disruptor, and organizations have to figure out a way to adjust to that. I mean, hey, let’s use AI and then, oh six months later, hey, AI is kind of a different animal now. And you know, it’s a fantastic tool if you use it right, but if you’re not using it right, it’s just, you know, more busy work, it doesn’t make any sense. We have done a few episodes on AI of the podcast. You can check the transcript on the Visix website for links to those.
Number four is new rules of attraction, retention and attrition.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Many people have drastically changed their attitudes towards work over the last few years. We’ve talked about work-life balance, where they work, when they work and what they expect from employers.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah. It’s not just insurance and a 401k anymore, or maybe an ergonomic chair. People want and expect, and actually demand, more.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. Companies really have to rethink what they’re offering in order to get and to keep the best people.
Derek DeWitt: I see here that 39% of the survey respondents in this article in seven different countries say that they’re planning to leave their jobs in the next three to six months. So that was in April. It’d be interesting to see if they did.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah, absolutely. But that’s, that’s a big number.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah.
Debbie DeWitt: You know, that’s nearly 40% of your people thinking about, where am I gonna go next in the next few months? That means you’re out there now trying to hire and train people. We all know that that means a huge expense. It means lost time, lost productivity. So, organizations have to develop some sort of employee value proposition that matches what modern workers expect. And the challenge is balancing that with what also doesn’t hurt the business or what helps the business.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah. And I don’t think it’s impossible for an organization to find that balance. It just takes effort.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. And this is a top-of-mind thing. I think this plays into the hybrid thing, but I think a big part of this challenge comes from that they haven’t addressed it until now. The mindset of employees has taken a huge shift in recent years, and right now it’s labor’s market.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah, that’s true. And let’s not forget, we like to blame the pandemic, but these changes were all, these are all dotcom innovations. All of this started back in the noughties and, 2017, 2018, if you go back and do some Google searching, you’ll see there are hundreds of articles for business leaders saying, hey, this new workforce, they have completely different ways of approaching what is and is not important for them.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. I mean, just like everything else. We’ve talked about, AI is evolving. Well, you know, employee needs and wants are evolving. And at the same time, I do believe organizations are evolving. If they weren’t, it wouldn’t be listed as a top-of-mind thing in this report.
Derek DeWitt: Sure. Absolutely. Five is closing the capability chasm.
Debbie DeWitt: Nice!
Derek DeWitt: Yeah. So McKinsey says, “companies often announce technological or digital elements in their strategies without having the right capabilities to integrate them.” It’s almost like they go, hey man, we’re doing digital, ’cause digital is a hot subject.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. Don’t launch a product or a service or a digital tool without having the infrastructure and the people to support it. You know, it’s kind of that simple. And I get it why this is top of mind because we all wanna be disruptors, we all wanna be first to market. And so sometimes you can develop some offering, but you haven’t trained your employees, you know. You don’t have the right tools to support it. You know, that all makes for bad customer experience. So, you need the right people and processes in place before you go throwing stuff out to the public.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah, that’s for sure. Or to your employees as well. I think it works for internal things just as much as it does for the public.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. Actually, the study also said, and this is a quote, “only 5% of respondents said their organizations already have the capabilities they need.”
Derek DeWitt: So that means 95% are unprepared or are launching stuff without being able to support it well.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah.
Derek DeWitt: That’s a lot.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. And I think it’s weird that this is a top-of-mind organizational “shift”. It seems like common sense, you know. It’s basic business sense that you have to do something better than your competitors to succeed. So why would you throw out something that you know is just gonna cause chaos or not work?
Derek DeWitt: I think because there’s a lot of this sense of almost urgency. There’s this rush, like, quick we gotta do something online, or we gotta do something on social. Or, yeah, I mean, sometimes, oh, I guess we gotta get digital signage, but we don’t really know what that entails. We not really ready to put the resources required to get that up and running and having it work correctly. You know, it’s like when companies go to their marketing people and say, okay, so make a viral video.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah, it doesn’t work.
Derek DeWitt: You can’t make a viral video. It might go viral, and there are some perhaps guidelines….
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. I get that this is a struggle between wanting to innovate quickly and having your company ready for those fast pivots. That’s why it’s made the top ten.
Derek DeWitt: Number six, walking the talent tightrope. They like alliteration.
Debbie DeWitt: Yes.
Derek DeWitt: This is about getting and keeping the best people, but not breaking the budget to do that. This is especially true for critical, or what you might call high-value, roles. So, McKinsey Research says 20-30% of these critical roles are not filled by the most appropriate people. You know, it’s the Peter Principle. The people who shouldn’t be promoted sometimes are.
Debbie DeWitt: Well, and it’s not just high level, like they say it’s critical or high value, not necessarily high level. So, I know this seems obvious, matching talent to the position, but I gotta say anyone with any work experience knows at least one person in some company they worked in or somewhere they worked where that person did not fit their job. And usually it’s more than one person.
Derek DeWitt: And that person’s not happy in that position, let’s just be honest. They don’t like it, they’re not doing a good job, they know they’re not. They’re out of their league, they’re out of their depth, they’re out of their skillset. And they’re not uh, they’re not gonna be good at it, because they don’t like it.
Debbie DeWitt: Well, it could be that, but it doesn’t mean that they’re necessarily out of their depth. They’re just mismatched. You have some very bright, intelligent, hard workers who could be put in the wrong position. You know, you can have someone who could be very valuable if you just match them to a job that works for their skillset.
And sometimes it’s about defining that job. Job descriptions are an art man. And then, you know, trying to find the perfect employee for them is hard.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah. The survey actually says the highest performers in a role are 800% more productive than an average performer in the same role. And that’s huge. And like you said, it’s not that this person’s smarter than that other person. It’s that, you know, someone who’s really, really good at speaking to people, if you make them a coder suddenly, that’s maybe not such a great match.
Debbie DeWitt: Just because they’re good at public speaking, they might not even be a good sales rep.
Derek DeWitt: Right.
Debbie DeWitt: You know, that’s not what they do, you know? So, I personally think this is the most important issue on the list because of that stat. 800% more productive.
And I think it goes hand in hand with everything else we’re talking about, about employee wants, about hybrid, you know, all of these things. And I get it, though. This is, you know, like they said, the talent tightrope isn’t just matching people to jobs. It’s about doing it within your budget. Every organization has to watch the bottom line. So, it’s a constant challenge, not just this year.
Derek DeWitt: Number seven is, and I quite like this one, leadership that is inspiring and self-aware, which is kind of the new twist there. Let’s face it, without good leaders, you’re screwed. But what we consider a good leader has changed over time.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. The fact that we say leadership instead of management is itself a big shift. You know, management is what I grew up with, and it was about top-down planning and dealing with “resources”. Leadership is very much thought of as about motivating and inspiring people.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah. I mean, it’s funny, I think a lot of organizations think, like I said, this is a post-pandemic thing, but it’s just not. This change from bureaucratic management to leadership really actually started, and here’s the funny thing, way back in the 1930s with something called the Human Relations Movement. The 30s!
Debbie DeWitt: Wow. Wow. Yeah. I think that’s a surprising thing. For all of you listeners, I think that’s the big wowsy moment.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. I mean, motivation and inspiration have always been key. I think the only difference today is that the people you’re dealing with are more spread out. But it’s really evolved with the social consciousness and sort of human-centered mindsets that dominate the workforce today.
I think your employees expect this because they’re more aware of it. Everybody’s more educated on these topics. And also, I think we have a lot more workers who are socially conscious, who are human centered. And so, they expect that.
Derek DeWitt: You know, it’s sad that, the McKinsey survey says, “only 25% of respondents say their leaders are engaged, passionate, and inspire employees to the best possible extent”. That’s not a great number.
Debbie DeWitt: No. A quarter of the respondents. But still, if it’s representative, that’s, we got a lot of work to do.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah.
Debbie DeWitt: I will say, every article I read, there are a lot of articles about hybrid work, and every day one of them says it’s, you know, it’s wonderful, and another one will say, it’s killing companies. But almost every article I read about the negatives of hybrid says when productivity falls off, or those employees are dissatisfied, especially with their leadership, it’s because their managers aren’t good at leading remote teams.
Derek DeWitt: Right. Which is a different kind of animal. I mean, it is.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah, yeah. It’s very different. And it’s, we’re not talking about the C-suite here. We’re talking about department team managers, you know, and if they’re falling down, it’s just for some reason, more glaring when it comes to hybrid.
But I think a lot of this is about leaders, like you said, being self-aware. That’s huge. And they have to be open to new ideas, and especially criticism and feedback.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah, that’s true. And I know I’m gonna sound like a jerk here a little bit, but I think as we see more younger people getting into leadership positions, we’re gonna see these desirable traits become more commonplace. It’s kind of already baked into just who they are and how they approach the world.
Debbie DeWitt: I don’t think you sound like a jerk. I completely agree.
Derek DeWitt: And for us Gen Xers, well, we’re gonna do what we’ve always done, is go, is this okay?
Debbie DeWitt: Sit back and see what happens.
Derek DeWitt: I guess this works.
Debbie DeWitt: More Doritos, please.
Derek DeWitt: Right, right. Yeah.
Number eight is make meaningful progress on diversity, equity and inclusion. DEI, which I know has become quite the topic of the culture wars, but ignore all that, okay?
The survey says, “less than 70% of respondents say their organizations express transformative DEI aspirations” and “only 47% say they have the infrastructure in place to realize their DEI aspirations”.
Debbie DeWitt: Well, yeah. But what I do like is, this is top of mind, let’s start there. That leaders are thinking about it and they’re talking about their, you know, these stats aren’t great, but they are saying they have DEI aspirations. They’re just not good, they don’t have the infrastructure, and they’re not good at, you know, actually executing on those.
So, I think you talked before about younger generations, DEI is also totally baked into their worldview. So, whether it’s weaponized in politics or whatever, it isn’t going anywhere. You know, organizations have to address it, and that’s why it’s on this list.
Derek DeWitt: And let’s face it, we’re back to talent. If you wanna attract good talent and retain good talent, then you have to support their priorities.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. And DEI is a priority. But unfortunately it looks like more organizations need to not only adopt DEI policies, but put some stuff in place that means you can actually do what you’re saying you’re going to do about it.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah. You gotta walk that talk.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah!
Derek DeWitt: Number nine is about mental health, “investing in a portfolio of interventions”.
Debbie DeWitt: I absolutely love that, “portfolio of interventions”.
Derek DeWitt: I dunno, I just see a file folder in my mind. The survey says roughly nine out of ten organizations offer some kind of wellness program for employees, but general health and wellbeing scores are still low.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. And I always wonder, what does wellness program, how is that defined in the survey, you know?
Derek DeWitt: We have a poster!
Debbie DeWitt: Right. Well, we have insurance, you know.
Derek DeWitt: Right.
Debbie DeWitt: And this can open a can of worms about insurance coverage or preventative care and other issues, but I won’t go there. I think the basic takeaway here is that organizations need to take a hard look at what they offer and the support they give their employees.
Derek DeWitt: Yeah. And keep in mind, this is not a one-time fix. You have to have systems in place that allow you to evaluate and adjust to meet the needs of your employees as those needs evolve over time.
The survey says, “employees facing mental health and wellbeing challenges are 4x more likely to want to leave their organization”. That might not even be something specific to that organization. It could just be that they’re like, I just need to shake things up. I’m unhappy and I need a change. And one of those changes could be, I’m a-leavin’ this place.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. I think this is, we’re seeing this worldwide where people are addressing this. You’ve got the UK experimenting with, I think, four-day work weeks.
Derek DeWitt: Yep, yep.
Debbie DeWitt: You know, you had the French cut work weeks. You have people saying, hey, if you’re gonna email someone or text them on their phone after, you know, whatever, five o’clock…
Derek DeWitt: I think it’s 6:00 PM.
Debbie DeWitt: Or 6:00 PM, you know, consider that time worked, especially for hourly people. A lot of people are saying, you know, work shouldn’t dominate the headspace.
And whatever goes on at the workplace needs to be wellness focused. You know, we’ve talked a lot about for digital signage campaigns doing some wellness tips, doing some health and benefits reminders, some perks. You know, little motivational and inspirational things to just make the day be better.
But, you know, I think this goes back again to talent retention. You need to walk your talk if you’re, especially if you’re advertising yourself as focused on worker wellbeing, you know, or work-life balance. Work-life balance is the new thing that everybody’s putting in their job descriptions. Well, make sure that’s true. Make sure you support your people, and not just support them after the fact when they are having issues, but do everything you can to keep them from having issues.
Derek DeWitt: Right. And that’s what they mean by “portfolio of interventions”. Try and get ahead of the problems, so that the problems don’t develop.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. And I’m thrilled this is on this list too, because I really like the way they phrased it, because a lot of lists have work-life balance as the topic. That’s not what this is. It’s mental health and a portfolio of solutions.
Derek DeWitt: Right. And keep in mind, we’re talking about mental health. We’re not talking about, is that person crazy? We’re talking about stress. We’re talking about a whole suite of things that is just… And I know in the olden days, I know when I first started working, the management philosophy was very much, suck it up buttercup, tough luck for you. But that, we don’t do this anymore. Nobody likes it. I didn’t like it, but there were no alternatives in my day. Now there are alternatives, and people just won’t stand for being treated like cogs.
Debbie DeWitt: Well, the good news is it’s top of mind. So, you know, business leaders are looking at how to address this.
Derek DeWitt: All right. And the tenth and last of the organizational shifts is called efficiency reloaded.
Debbie DeWitt: The sequel! Efficiency, the sequel.
Derek DeWitt: “(colon) Reloaded”. Over a third of leaders who took the survey listed efficiency as one of their top three priorities. 40% of them said that their organizational structure is actually a cause of inefficiencies. And about the same number, 40%, said unclear roles and responsibilities contribute to inefficiencies.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. I mean, I think every leader, every business or organizational leader’s always focused on efficiency. They always have been. But with all of these other things we’ve talked about, all of these other things changing, whether internal or external, it’s figuring out how to keep your efficiency levels or boost those efficiency levels within these new paradigms.
You know, all the things we’ve talked about up to this point can help boost efficiency if they find good solutions for them. But you have to make sure, you know, your organizational structure (which was mentioned), technology, processes, people – none of that can obstruct efficiency.
Derek DeWitt: And efficiency isn’t necessarily fastest. A phrase I’ve heard crop up a few times lately, I don’t know where it originates, but the phrase is “slow is smooth and smooth is fast”. And I thought, hmm, that’s a very interesting way to approach the concept of efficiency.
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. And I think every organization defines efficiency differently. You know, it’s not a one-size-fits-all. It’s not whoever makes the most widgets in an hour anymore, that’s not necessarily what they’re doing.
Derek DeWitt: Especially if, because of the speed that the widgets were being made at, half of them are defective and have to be tossed out.
Debbie DeWitt: Right. Exactly. So that’s why I think it takes all of those other nine points into account when they look at efficiency. You know, I think it really comes down to though, you know, if you put all of this together, you need to be agile, have good leaders, hire the right people for the right job, and support those people in every way possible to keep them happy. And you’re gonna get efficiency.
Derek DeWitt: Oh, that’s all we have to do? Gosh, it sounds so easy!
Debbie DeWitt: Yeah. That’s all. Just a little to-do list for 2024.
Derek DeWitt: McKinsey & Company end their report with four action items that encompass all ten of these organizational shifts that we’re talking about.
The first one is that organizations need to set a clear direction and have a plan, whether that involves just making small adjustments or some kind of radical transformation.
Debbie DeWitt: Right. We always talk about have a plan first, please. You know, look at these ten things, figure out what you’re gonna do, get a real plan.
And then the second and third points they said are people-centered. It’s focus on cultivating talent and invest in leadership that can move that organization forward. And that’s obviously based on that plan.
Derek DeWitt: Sure. And lastly, solutions to the ten things we’ve talked about need to be integrated into the systems that already exist.
Debbie DeWitt: Well, that and all of them integrated together.
Derek DeWitt: Ah!
Debbie DeWitt: All of these things are interrelated. So you don’t have to solve all of them at once, but you do have to consider the impact of one issue’s solution on the other issues.
Derek DeWitt: Oh, that’s a great point, I think.
Debbie DeWitt: You know, especially, we looked at, one of them talks about budget.
Derek DeWitt: Right.
Debbie DeWitt: You know, all of these things, everything can be solved with bodies and money, right? But you need to really look at them all as a set. And if you’re working on one, you know, don’t sabotage your future success in another.
I personally highly recommend you read this report in full, and there will be a link in the transcript, because they include some tips for each of these issues, but they also have a whole bunch of best practices from leaders who found ways to address these different challenges.
Derek DeWitt: So, those are ten of the most common organizational shifts that businesses are dealing with right now, through 2023 and into 2024 and beyond. It’ll be very interesting, I think, to see what the new year brings, how much progress we make on these issues, and what new challenges might pop up.
I’d like to thank Debbie DeWitt for talking to me today about the McKinsey & Company report on organizational shifts. Thanks, Debbie. Super interesting stuff. I’m very curious to see what the next year holds.
Debbie DeWitt: Right. Make no predictions. We can predict nothing anymore. Who knows? But you know, we live in exciting times.
Derek DeWitt: Yes, exactly. And that means agility is key.
I’d like to thank Deb for talking to me, and of course, everybody out there for listening. As we’ve reminded you a couple of times already, there is a transcript on the Visix website. Go there and read and click on the links.